@whole_patients RT @cmeadvocate: last thought for the night: has anyone ever taught a class in "learning to learn" - medicine needs this! #CMEchat #meded

@cmeadvocate .@RyanMadanickMD - last thought for the night: has anyone ever taught a class in "learning to learn" - medicine needs this! #CMEchat #meded

@RyanMadanickMD @cmeadvocate great point; not sure #CMEchat #meded

@cmeadvocate .@RyanMadanickMD - agreed...but that is where my concern lies. who teaches the 'incorporation' skill - why do we assume? #CMEchat #meded

@RyanMadanickMD @cmeadvocate It's not the searching that is the learning, it's the incorporation of the results of the search #mindexplodes #CMEchat #meded

@RyanMadanickMD @cmeadvocate If you know what you're looking for, direct a good question, it is Patient-Based Learning #mindexplodes #CMEchat #meded

@cmeadvocate .@RyanMadanickMD - so is searching on pubmed really learning? #mindexplodes #CMEchat #meded

@RyanMadanickMD @cmeadvocate T1 having the tablet with you at all times could help look up articles on the fly on Pubmed #CMEchat #meded

@cmeadvocate .@RyanMadanickMD - discussed informal learning this week on #CMEchat - interesting skill set needed to frame Q's & search for A's. #meded

@chandazcrumb RT @cmeadvocate: T3 - lots of data on 'docs and google' or 'docs and wikipedia'...but seems colleagues are #1 trusted search engine #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate MT @pfanderson: An HCP shd know how to support clinical decisionmaking, quick searches. Get expert librn for systematic reviews. #CMEchat

@pfanderson RT @cmeadvocate: @pfanderson? RT @CuratioCME: T4: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? I mean really do one? #CMEchat

@spelletier #TOTD @CommPharm: T4 sometimes I find that it is not finding the answer that is the problem but asking the right question #cmechat

@betsymeded @cmeadvocate #CMEChat Perhaps, but hashtags for #quality and #MTM often yield very askew results requiring a lot of further filtering.

@betsymeded Absolutely! MT @spelletier: t3 tools they use for real-time searches—like on Millionaire: call a friend, poll audience? #cmechat

@SusanBConnelly It's a crutch RT @betsymeded: T3: Google has to some degree been the gate-keeper of medical knowledge. Are HCPs over dependent?? #CMEChat

@betsymeded T3: Google has to some degree been the gate-keeper of medical knowledge. Are HCPs over dependent?? #CMEChat

@CMEChat The real impact of the #CMEchat lies in your action - engage others to participate & take action on things your have learned! G’day!

@kenny_cox T5 #cmechat - one of the most attended activities we ever did was on web technology and how to apply it

@CMEChat As we get wrap up, please vote for the tweet of the day (#TOTD) seen during this week's #CMEchat.

@CMEChat Thx for participating in #CMEchat. All discussions herein are assumed 2 b personal opinion & not that of current, past, or future employers.

@CuratioCME T5: Add a bit of formality to your informality. A moderated comment section attached to an activity? #CMEchat

@betsymeded @cmeadvocate Thinking it is more about standardization of a minimally acceptable competency??? #CMEChat

@CommPharm T5 the interesting thing with CME is we could not always provide all the answer but use a lesson to stimulate informal learning #cmechat

@cmeadvocate always better when a doc says this ;-) #phew RT @DrJosephKim: #CMEchat Docs don't know what they don't know.

@kenny_cox Probably more than another activity on asthma @cmeadvocate: will they use it? #CMEchat”

@spelletier @CuratioCME @cmeadvocate they will use if you don't call it SoMe/Web 2.0 #cmechat

@cmeadvocate t5 - or... does the CME community even have these skills? Who are the SMEs as it relates to search & informal learning? #CMEchat

@CuratioCME Million dollar question RT @cmeadvocate: will they use it? RT @CuratioCME: T5: Build SoMe / Web 2.0 tools into CME activities. #CMEchat

@spelletier RT @CuratioCME: T5: Build SoMe / Web 2.0 tools into CME activities. Combine formal learning with informal #cmechat

@betsymeded T1: Is formal learning used to validate practice? Informal learning is used to intentionally acquire new info #CMEChat

@cmeadvocate will they use it? RT @CuratioCME: T5: Build SoMe / Web 2.0 tools into CME activities. Combine formal learning with informal #CMEchat

@kenny_cox Sounds like education is needed! @cmeadvocate: T5 - can we teach docs to do google searches...to set up google alerts #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t5 - but if the basic challenge is the inability to 'formalize' the right question? if it is self-awareness, then what? #CMEchat

@CommPharm T5 - Everyone needs tools in how CME information can be translated to managing a patient . Theory -> Practice #cmechat

@CuratioCME T5: Build SoMe / Web 2.0 tools into CME activities. Combine formal learning with informal #CMEchat

@kenny_cox True @CuratioCME: T4: Even knowing how to do a good Google search is important. If I use "" = refined search = less time spent #CMEchat

@betsymeded T2: Was reviewing outcomes data, and saw a comment that "I will do x procedure more often now" after a 1 hour lecture - scarry! #CMEChat

@cmeadvocate T5 - can we teach docs to do google searches...to set up google alerts {same with pubmed/others}? Can't we simplify this? #CMEchat

@kenny_cox Very few - Easier to ask your partner down the hall @CuratioCME: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? #CMEchat”

@CuratioCME T4: Even knowing how to do a good Google search is important. If I use "" = refined search = less time spent searching. #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate #TOTD RT @CommPharm: T4 sometimes I find that it is not finding the answer that is the problem but asking the right question #cmechat

@CMEChat T5: OK, so how can the CME community support informal learning of HCPs? How can we support search skills-building or create tools? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate & where is the context to practice? RT @CuratioCME: T4: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? I mean really do one? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t4 - not many comments on the data integration piece, and isn't this fundamental to 'learning'...what would Maslow say? #CMEchat

@CommPharm Too time consuming, I would say # is small RT @CuratioCME: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? I mean really do one? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate @pfanderson? RT @CuratioCME: T4: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? I mean really do one? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate T3. "...how blogs, wikis, bookmarking, & mobile devices are used to deliver e-learning in nephrology." t.co/k6equDi #CMEchat

@CuratioCME Very true RT @CommPharm: T4 sometimes I find that it is not finding the answer that is the problem but asking the right question #cmechat

@kenny_cox T4 #cmechat - education in how to search including refinement, sources, etc.

@CuratioCME T4: What % of HCP's know how to do a Medline search? I mean really do one? #CMEchat

@CommPharm T4 sometimes I find that it is not finding the answer that is the problem but asking the right question #cmechat

@cmeadvocate T4 - the issues of trust and credibility. so critical thinking and skepticism are the primary defense against wild goose chases...#CMEchat

@mtmdphd RT @cmeadvocate: T3 - lots of data on 'docs and google' or 'docs and wikipedia'...but seems colleagues are #1 trusted search engine #CMEchat

@CuratioCME T4: 1. Resources available to them; 2. How to use them. Basic, yes, but still... #CMEchat

@mtmdphd RT @cmeadvocate: T3 - we should have new data from @SermoTeam @MedscapeCME and others on 'search' inside these communities #CMEchat

@mtmdphd RT @cmeadvocate: t3 - i doubt anyone learned about #CMEchat in a formal training program = ergo, informal learning rocks!

@cmeadvocate T4 - seems that the number one skill for informal learning and search (more specifically) is critical thinking & skepticism. #CMEchat

@Doctor_V @cmeadvocate In clinic and lurking #CMEchat

@CMEChat T4: What skills do HCPs need when ‘searching’ for answers? And, what skills are needed for HCPs to quickly intergrate answers. #CMEchat

@CuratioCME Unless you mention it over drinks :-) RT @SusanBConnelly: @cmeadvocate if u talk about at ACME in Jan then it is formal learning #CMEchat

@kenny_cox Or is it searching for sources to answers @CuratioCME: So are you saying Docs use SoMe to seach for answers? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate drive-by teaching moment by the one & only @Doctor_V: MT @DrVes: The Internet as a Means of #meded t.co/WA04jVi #CMEchat

@CommPharm The problem with SOME is trust of the source. HCPs trust a colleague they work with but another doc on the other side of the world? #cmechat

@cmeadvocate T3 - we should have new data from @SermoTeam @MedscapeCME and others on 'search' inside these communities #CMEchat

@Doctor_V MT @DrVes: Embracing the Internet as a Means of Enhancing Medical Ed in Nephrology - Am J Kidney Dis. 2011 t.co/8jxrQaQ #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly @cmeadvocate but if you talk about it at the ACME meeting in Jan then it is part of formal learning... #CMEchat

@CuratioCME @cmeadvocate So are you saying Docs use SoMe to seach for answers? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t3 - i doubt anyone learned about #CMEchat in a formal training program = ergo, informal learning rocks!

@FDALawyers Google and wikipedia are sadly up there. But not trusted as much as uptodate/harrisons/micromedex etc #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t3 - my 'aha' moment with SoMe was the recognition that docs are social learners & SoMe is the ultimate window to the world. #CMEchat

@spelletier RT @CuratioCME: T3: I have no way to verify this, but I would bet the #1 way is Google. #cmechat

@cmeadvocate repeat this study! RT @kenny_cox: #cmechat If Docs are like college kids they could use some help in learning how to search t.co/W83Hqx9

@CuratioCME RT @kenny_cox: #cmechat If Docs are like college students, they could use some help in learning how to search t.co/W83Hqx9

@spelletier t3 tools they use for real-time searches—like on who wants to be a millionaire: call a friend, poll audience? #cmechat

@kenny_cox #cmechat If Docs are like college students, they could use some help in learning how to search t.co/W83Hqx9

@CuratioCME T3: I have no way to verify this, but I would bet the #1 way is Google. #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate T3 - lots of data on 'docs and google' or 'docs and wikipedia'...but seems colleagues are #1 trusted search engine #CMEchat

@CuratioCME T3: Info search (low tech version): ask a colleague in the hall. #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly T3: discussions w/ peers, online searches: lit searches, databases etc #CMEChat

@CommPharm the way I see the diff Formal=qualified to practice, informal=continued learning and maintain the quality to practice #cmechat

@cmeadvocate T2: Wikipedia: informal learning is widely used to describe learning that takes place independently from instructor-led programs #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate T2: Wikipedia: informal learning is widely used to describe learning that takes place independently from instructor-led programs #CMEchat

@kenny_cox it's all about the certificate in the file @SusanBConnelly: It's all about documentation and for the record #CMEChat

@kenny_cox it's all about the certificate in the file @SusanBConnelly: It's all about documentation and for the record #CMEChat

@FDALawyers @CMEChat uptodate, micromedex #CMEchat

@CuratioCME Good point! RT @DrJosephKim: #CMEchat T2 Physicians traditionally value formal education, degrees, credentials, certification, etc.

@SusanBConnelly It's all about documentation and for the record #CMEChat

@CMEChat T3: One way to view informal learning is "Information Search.” How do HCPs search for answers in real time? What tools do they use? #CMEchat

@kenny_cox Does it all come down to the ability to measure? @cmeadvocate: T2 - do the powers that be believe that 'formal training' is BETTER #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate #headexploded RT @SusanBConnelly: Can't forget formal vs structured. clinical rotations: formal but not fully structured... #CMEChat

@SusanBConnelly Much of medical learning takes place the same formally or informally, difference is within or outside of certification #CMEChat

@spelletier @cmeadvocate Sure seems like PTB favor formal over informal #cmechat

@CuratioCME @cmeadvocate They want proof that training has occurred. Hard to do that with informal. #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate T2 - do the powers that be believe that 'formal training' is BETTER than informal learning - and therefore prescribe it? #CMEchat

@spelletier RT @SusanBConnelly: Cant forget formal vs structured. ...clinical rotations r formal but not fully structured, on-job training #cmechat

@FDALawyers Formal education tends to often be general v. informal tends to be pertinent to the issue. #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t2 - beside credits & residency rules (ACCME and ACGME)- isn't most 'formal learning' requirements, just obligatory evaluation? #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly Can't forget formal vs structured. Think of clinical rotations, formal but not fully structured, on-job training #CMEChat

@mtmdphd RT @DrJosephKim: #CMEchat T1 - Most physicians learn informally by having discussions with colleagues. This is being done in-person and ...

@spelletier t2 I think formal eval makes sense. If they fail, then require formal training #cmechat

@CuratioCME T2: Formal training required in areas such as patient safety? #CMEchat

@spelletier t2 anyone have an answer to "if so, what?" #cmechat

@cmeadvocate t2 - so docs will continue to need certification of certain knowledge & skills. But is this formal training or formal evaluation? #CMEchat

@kenny_cox #cmechat T2 - formal more knowledge base, informal more competence?

@CommPharm Agree RT @CuratioCME: t2: Need to have a balance. Need formal training for skills, but use informal learning to complement it #CMEchat

@CuratioCME t2: Need to have a balance. Need formal training for skills, but use informal learning to complement it #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t2 - i confuse myself often...but can surgical skills be informally learned...yes, right. Since you aren't tested on objectives...#CMEchat

@CMEChat t2 - i confuse myself often...but can surgical skills be informally learned...yes, right. Since you aren't tested on objectives...#CMEchat

@CommPharm Agree but depends on venue @SusanBConnelly: I disagree that informal learning answers simple questions, they can be very complex #cmechat

@spelletier t2 maybe not require training, but some things need to require proof that the knowledge/skills are current #cmechat

@kenny_cox Very True @SusanBConnelly: @CommPharm I disagree that informal learning answers simple questions, they can be very complex also #cmechat

@CECSarahG A1: Cat 2 seems to be more self-initiated and only for education of the individual doctor. @curatiocme #CMEchat

@spelletier @cmeadvocate t1 to tack onto yr episodic/continuous thought: can informal be part of formal to make formal continuous? #cmechat

@CuratioCME T1: Informal learning can occur at Point of Care. That's very tough for formal #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly @CommPharm I disagree that informal learning answers simple questions, they can be very complex also #cmechat

@CMEChat T2: Are there certain things that MUST require formal training vs informal learning? Skills? For regulatory reasons? If so, what? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate t1 - can formal learning ever be more than episodic...where informal learning is the only "continuous" process? #CMEchat

@CommPharm T1 - informal gives answer to the simple questions - such as what do I do with a patient with .... vs formal reviewing the disease #cmechat

@spelletier T1 agree with @CommPharm. informal also effective because it is specifically sought after #cmechat

@cmeadvocate i totally agree, but what does the science say? RT @SusanBConnelly: Truly, informal learning is the hallmark of adult education #cmechat

@kenny_cox T1 #cmechat Is there a higher level of perceived value with informal learning from peers?

@CuratioCME @cmeadvocate I don't think credits drives formal learning that much now either... #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly Truly, informal learning is the hallmark of adult education #cmechat

@cmeadvocate T1 - on a webinar yesterday on Corporate Training the spkr suggested 80% of learning is informal...but still need a ref from @C4LPT #CMEchat

@CommPharm T1 Informal is a very effective way of learning. HCP's want to see what their peers are doing and try to emulate in their practice #cmechat

@MatthewBrowning RT @DrJosephKim: Looking forward to participating in #CMEchat today! It would be great to get the Alliance fully on board with #CMEchat!

@spelletier T1 I don't think there is a diff in value gained between formal and informal. Informal may be stickier #cmechat

@cmeadvocate T1 - the motivation of 'finding an answer' & the 'needs' of practice seem to drive informal learning much more than credits...#CMEchat

@CuratioCME T1: Is it accurate to say AMA Cat 1 is formal learning and Cat 2 is informal? #CMEchat

@kenny_cox #cmechat Best thing learned is that the earth does move when you talk about REMS education....

@cmeadvocate T1 - classrooms & tests are the stuff of formal learning, but how much more is learned informally...socially...seredipitously? #CMEchat

@CuratioCME Cinnabon! RT @meducate: @cmeadvocate Greetings from a rest stop on the New Jersey Turnpike. See you all next week #CMEchat

@meducate @cmeadvocate Greetings from a rest stop on the New Jersey Turnpike. See you all next week #CMEchat

@spelletier @cmeadvocate @CommPharm gr8 idea to see if Alliance would help spread the word about #cmechat

@CuratioCME @CMEHulk RT @kenny_cox: That would be a CMEHulk Exercise “@CuratioCME: @cmeadvocate 1 a week? That might take physical force... #CMEchat”

@cmeadvocate we need a #CMEchat themesong! RT @spelletier: Sue in Mass. is here. Best thing I learned this week is my intern plays a mean banjo #cmechat

@SusanBConnelly I've been trying to recruit everyone I talk to but not too much pull through #CMEChat

@CMEChat T1: We've discussed the roles of “formal” & “informal” learning. What do you see as the differences as it relates to medicine? #CMEchat

@spelletier Sue in Mass. is here. Best thing I learned this week is my intern plays a mean banjo #cmechat

@CuratioCME I learned that 2 week vacations are great, but coming back is...uh...less great. #CMEchat

@kenny_cox That would be a CMEHulk Exercise “@CuratioCME: @cmeadvocate 1 a week? That might take physical force... #CMEchat”

@cmeadvocate @CommPharm - agree w/ that...I am going to pitch the #cmechat idea to the Alliance and see if we can get some endorsment of the venue...

@cmeadvocate know 'forceful' CME professionals you can call on? RT @CuratioCME: @cmeadvocate 1 a week? That might take physical force... #CMEchat

@CommPharm @cmeadvocate - Hard to gauge the attendance in #cmechat due to the summer holidays. Let's see what happens when Sept rolls around

@CuratioCME @cmeadvocate 1 a week? That might take physical force... #CMEchat

@CMEChat Before we get started - what is the best thing you have learned this week? #CMEchat

@cmeadvocate Thanks 2 everyone for joining today. Should we obligate everyone to recruit one new member a week to #CMEchat...or is small and cozy better?

@cmeadvocate um. no ;-p RT @SusanBConnelly: Susan in Lansdale PA wondering if @cmeadvocate has managed to automate those rules yet #cmechat

@cmeadvocate i know that @meducate is pulling Dad of the year Points w/ the family today and @dean_jenkins is cycling b/w wineries in Europe...#CMEchat

@rmtyner Michelle from Indiana ... can't believe that it is almost September! #CMEchat

@SusanBConnelly Susan in Lansdale PA wondering if @cmeadvocate has managed to automate those rules yet #cmechat

@CommPharm Mike from Barrie Ontario. I hope everyone is having a good day so far #cmechat

@cmeadvocate Brian here! Welcome to the 21st #CMEchat - hope all is well post the east coast's quakapocalypse of 2011!

@kenny_cox Kenny here tweeting from NJ instead of Springfield, MO #cmechat

@CuratioCME Derek in Exton, PA. Wishing I was back in Maine. #CMEchat

@CMEChat As with each #CMEchat the archive will be available at t.co/IGzx0lX and archived as a pdf on www.CMEadvocate.com

@CMEChat As with each #CMEchat the archive will be available at t.co/IGzx0lX and archived as a pdf on www.CMEadvocate.com

@CMEChat As with each #CMEchat we will guide the convo with 3 or 5 topics, but the real learning and teaching lies in your tweets - please engage.

@CMEChat Rule 7. A few mins before the end of #CMEchat, reintroduce yourself. Links, requests & shameless plugs welcome, too - #makingfriends

@CMEChat Rule 6. On #CMEchat we aim to play nice. Sarcasm & irony welcome though. Really. Seriously. #laughingislearning

@CMEChat Rule 5. Periodically RT questions so those outside #CMEchat know what you’re talking about & so they can chime in too

@CMEChat Rule 4. Please remember to use the #CMEchat hashtag so all of the #CMEchat participants can follow the #CMEchat discussion!

@CMEChat Rule 3. When writing, complete thoughts help followers outside chat learn from you. #CMEchat

@CMEChat Rule 2. [try to] stay on the #CMEchat topic. A new question will be asked every 12 min or so. If you can, include T# in related responses

@CMEChat Rules for #CMEchat: 1. Introduce yourself. Location? Focus? Fave topics? What brings you here today?

@CMEChat Welcome to #CMEchat. All discussions herein are assumed to be personal opinion & not that of current, past, or future employers.

@spelletier How do docs learn outside of their formal educational activities? Let's talk on #CMEChat, starting in 4 minutes #cmechat

@cmeadvocate 25 minutes until #CMEchat. Where do docs search for information? What skills support their search & their integration of new information?